Government has awoken to the power of design for business, large, medium and small. The country has made great progress from 1960’s Ireland, when the government last played a significant role in the design sector. Today, design has achieved strategic importance. It is now recognised as a key enabler of innovation, an effective agent for organisational change and a process for delivering positive customer experience. The government of 2018 recognise design on par with STEM disciplines (Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths) and has more recently written it into future policy ambitions with the 2017 publication, ‘Winning by Design’. In this interview, Martin Ryan and Trevor Vaugh step outside the design community for an external perspective offered by a pillar of Irish industry, Denis Hayes - MD of IRDG (Industry Research & Development Group). Representing a network of over 250 companies involved in Research, Development and Innovation (RD&I) across all industry sectors, the IRDG are an important part of the current and future industry growth and ambition and provide a litmus test for the progress of design thinking in industry.